The big mistake of Obasanjo - Olu Alabi

The big mistake OBJ made —Ex-FCDA boss, Dr Olu Alabi font size decrease font size increase font size Print Email 14.Nov.2014 DISQUS_COMMENTS Kunle Oderemi Rate this item1 2 3 4 5 (0 votes) DR Olu Alabi is a former chairman of the Federal Capital Development Authority (FCDA) Abuja and commissioner in old Oyo State. He was among the leaders that led the crusade for the creation of Osun State more than two decades ago. In this interview with KUNLE ODEREMI, he gives an insight into the politics of former President Olusegun Obasanjo, Chief Bisi Akande, President Goodluck Jonathan, state governors, among others. Your criticism of a former governor of Osun State, Chief Bisi Akande seems unjustified as he is widely believed to have performed very well as the governor of the state? There is a difference between reality and perception. The perception is that he did well but the reality is that he did not do well. Chief Akande is my big brother and we contested together. In fact, I was the first gubernatorial candidate of the PDP in the state. Akande was the one that was actually popular; it was the AD that was popular. When I was going round, I could not enter Ife because of the popularity of Omisore. But I campaigned in Ila-Oragun and the Oragun of Ila prayed for and blessed me, whereas I could not enter Ife to campaign. So, that’s the comparative value of Akande and Omisore as of that time. But that’s beside the point. I would like Baba Akande to stop abusing or castigating past or present president of the country. He might be older than President Goodluck Jonathan but he is the symbol of this country. He is the president of the country. Akande should not do anything to undermine the person of the president. You can criticise his policies; you can criticise some of his programmes. But you should not say he is a dullard or that he is clueless. You don’t use such demeaning language like a street man would do. Akande did a similar thing when Baba Olusegun Obasanjo was the president of the country. Maybe, it is because Akande loves palm wine. If he still wants to make it a past time in abusing past leaders, he should concentrate on Major General Muhammadu Buhari. He should abuse the man now and again because it was the former head of state who jailed him for various allegations of abuse of office in the Second Republic. But, you must remember the Ibrahim Babangida administration revisited the conviction? The conviction was only reviewed and I still have a copy of the government white paper on it. Who reviewed the sentence? It was IBB. Akande was among the other politicians that were convicted by the Buhari regime. I was a commissioner in the old Oyo State then when it was reviewed. His conviction was reviewed from five to three years by the military administration. Akande was also asked to refund more than N700,000 to the government coffers. Above all, he was banned from holding political office for life by the military, one of the institutions he is now championing one of its own. So, if he wants to abuse anybody, let Akande concentrate on Buhari. But, he appears to be engaging in constructive criticism of official policies and not necessarily attacking the office of the president? Look, I had the privilege of attending very good schools and we can all read English. If I say you have no clue, it is a direct abuse. If I say your policy on education has no basis or vision, that’s a different thing. If Akande addresses issues concerning official policies and programmes, nobody will tackle him on that. But he frequently engages in personality attacks. Don’t you think his utterances are all also about political intrigues, or do you expect him to start singing praises of the president who belongs to a rival political party? I am not about praising. I will not insult Governor Rauf Aregbesola of Osun State, even though we are not in the same party. He is the symbol of my state. Let’s compare the two-Akande and Aregbesola. Akande did not do well in education in Osun and the result of that destruction is what we are getting now. While Akande did not build any new schools, Aregbesola built new ones. I won’t talk of Prince Olagunsoye Oyinlola and I won’t talk of the PDP simply because I want to be objective. Akande sacked teachers; in my church, he sacked both husband and wife. Aregbesola is still employing teachers. The most nauseating thing is that the books sent from Abuja under the Universal Basic Education project were left to waste in the store during Akande’s government. He refused to distribute them. It was the PDP administration that brought out the books most of which had even been damaged. He left the books to waste because they were brought by a government different from his own. So, this is the man that is now insulting Mr President who is transforming the country. Osun came 23rd or so in the WASC result. It is not what Aregbesola is doing now that caused it; neither is it as a result of the activities of his predecessor. The rot and decay during Akande’s tenure as the governor of the state. If you are not callous, you won’t sack a husband and the wife. By and large, it is not that I have anything personal against Baba Akande. He is my good brother. As an old man, he should mind his language when it concerns Mr President. You can criticise his policy on education, aviation or health where necessary. But don’t criticise because you want to destroy the man. He could be a young but he is the head of state. I have to respect him. I may not agree with some of his policies. In fact, I disagree with most of his policies. Why? If his policies have not been people-friendly, he wouldn’t have secured a second term in office. Let’s wait for the result of the Osun State election Petition Tribunal decision. Don’t jump at any conclusion. So, let’s wait. We don’t want to discuss what is already in the court. The most important thing is that anybody can criticise the government if it is not doing well. I remember Chief Obafemi Awolowo used to say when you criticise, you should offer alternatives. In one of his speeches, Awolowo said respect your leader and don’t run them down. Even in the book of Romans, it is stated that the people should always respect in the authority because by opposing the authority, you are opposing God and invoking his curse on your head. Anyway, may not make meaning to people who are neither Christians nor a Muslims. To a man who swore by the Bible or Quran when he was elected governor. Let’s talk about the race for the Senate and the House of Representatives, as some are saying that the incumbents should be allowed to retain their seats, just as others say the parties should allow other aspirants to have a shot at the seats…. We tend to confuse two things: parliamentary politics and executive politics. We zone political appointments like in the executive so that the positions can go round towards ensuring a sense of belonging. Yes ideally, it could apply to legislative but, the longer you stay in the legislature, the better the experience you have and the better for the country. When I was in the National Assembly, I was invited by the Senate of the United States in my capacity as the Chairman, Senate Committee on Health. During our discussion, I told my counterpart from the US that it was my first time and he said I must be brilliant to become the chairman of the Senate committee in my first term. I was dazed. He said he became chairman of a US Senate Committee in his 17th year in the Senate . You cannot compare people with 17 years’ experience with those with just two years. You cannot compare David Mark with somebody who has just come into the Senate. Mark has saved this country from legal and constitutional embarrassment because of his experience, if only for the doctrine of necessity that he propounded during a very critical time. Senator Victor Ndoma-Egba has equally saved the country from possible embarrassing situations too. Ditto Honourable Femi Gbajabiamila’s experience. All this is across the party line. Senator Uche Chukwumerije is experienced. You could see that the longer you stay in the legislative arm of government, the richer you become in the art and issues. It’s just like being a journalist, you just don’t become an editor overnight. So, the longer you stay in the legislative arm, the better for our democracy and that’s the practice in the advanced world. Does it not constitute a major obstacle, because of the peculiarity of the Nigerian political environment, where each unit wants an immediate feel of the action? No, the problem is impatience. When I was the Senator for Osun Senatorial, I made sure that I took care of all the places in anything I wanted to do; from Ifon to Oke Ila which was my constituency. You want to take care of everybody. I cannot concentrate everything in Osogbo, because there is a government in the state capital already. The state government is there. So, for a legislator, who knows his onions, he would make sure that the goodies go round, especially if he should really want a second term because the vote of one local government cannot secure him the ticket and seat. Senator Omisore became the chairman, Senate Committee on Appropriation in his second year in the Senate. He was a ranking senator. If he was in his first term, nobody would make him chairman of the committee and I know a lot of things he did for Osun then. Don’t you think the jumbo salary legislators earned now is peradventure one of the reasons everybody wants to make it to the Senate or the House of Representatives? The salary is absurd and outrageous. How do you mean? Listen to me, when I was in the National Assembly, our salary was N18, 000 a month each. We were given free accommodation, so my position is that Senate and the House should be based on part time. The kind of money the members now get is why everybody is rushing to become a member of the National Assembly. People, who look for jobs and couldn’t get and people who go into businesses and didn’t succeed, all want to go into politics. They all want to go to the House. When I interview people, who want to go to the House in Osun, look at their credentials and listen to them, I laugh. They are just looking for an opportunity to loot. So, the money the lawmakers earn is too much. The amount should be reduced. You can imagine that in all this constitutional review exercise, nobody is talking about the huge salaries and allowances of elected public officials. They should be reduced. That is why when somebody resigns or is removed from office for one reason or the other, he doesn’t want to go. Nobody has the guts to resign because if he resigns from his big position, where will he get that kind of money for his business? The salary should be slashed and we should also return to part-time legislature. Part-time? Is that in consonance with the principle of federalism? It is a matter amending our constitution. For example, under the parliamentary system in Britain, how many people have houses in London? You only have Number 10 Downing Street for the Prime Minister; Number 8 for the Chancellor of the Exchequer; while the others rent flats all over London. But here in Nigeria, they will spend N18 billion to renovate the residence of the Speaker of the House. They will spend N100 billion to build a new house for the Senate president. They will spend a ridiculous amount to build a house for the Leader of the House. So, if there is any mistake Obasanjo committed while in office as president, it is the selling of the Apo Quarters Abuja. Why? Those houses were built, in General Ibrahim Babangida’s wisdom, as permanent residences for the federal legislators. It is easier to get a job in Abuja than to get a housing accommodation in the city. Towards the later part of his tenure, Obasanjo sold the houses to their occupants. It was very bad. I was the chairman of Federal Capital Development Authority then. He had just spent money renovating the houses only to sell them out. That decision by him is just like you now say you want to sell out Doddan Barracks in Ikoyi the former seat of power in the country to individuals. Why didn’t you kick against the plan before it was carried out? Quietly, I did. How? In my capacity as the chairman of the FCDA, I went to him and asked him, “Baba, why are you selling these houses?” He said his decision was final. “Go and do what I asked you to do.” Renovate the houses. Period! What kind of man do you think Obasanjo is, in the first instance? Baba Obasanjo has the love of this country at heart, but he is a very temperamental man. When someone becomes too temperamental and you take decision when you are upset, when you are annoyed and when you are in high temperament, you will make a few mistakes. That is the only thing I see about Obasanjo. When was in Abuja, Baba talks about Nigeria with passion and he actually meant well for the country and still means well for Nigeria. But, Baba can be brash at times in taking decisions. We the younger ones sometimes cannot comprehend him. Did he at any point in time try to make you realise some of his foibles and how he could check them? I will tell you a story. One day (current governor of Kano State), Dr Musa Kwankwaso came to my house. He said, ‘‘Chairman, talk to Baba. Tell Baba that he should release Abacha’s son from Kuje prison.” The feeling was that the detention was making Mohammed Abacha unnecessarily popular in Kano and he was giving Kwankwaso a lot of headache. I went to baba that night as I was living inside the Presidential Villa then. Baba said, “Olu o ti gba ‘bode. (Olu, you seem compromised!). This man who came was a governor of a state. What is the popularity of this man? If we release him from the prison, once he gets back to Kano he forgets me in two days.” He said you were a saboteur. A few weeks later, he released him. I was in the villa when he said “Olu, I have released your boy.” I said he was not my boy, I didn’t own him; it was the peace of the country. That was the kind of the person we are talking about. The governor spoke with Obasanjo before coming to my house on the same issue. He thought Obj trusted me. I did it with good intention. How did you see his stance now as far as issue concerning PDP and 2015 elections? Baba doesn’t forgive easily. He is a good Christian but he should develop the spirit of forgiveness. I don’t disappoint people. I don’t let people down, even when people let me down or do something that hurts. But even then we are all sinners. Baba should forgive anybody that must have offended him in the PDP. From all indications so far, do you believe his heart, body and soul are indeed with the PDP as far as 2015 election is concerned? The only way you can know a person is in the PDP is by carrying the card. At least, when Tambuwal wanted to jump the fence, he tore our card and kept our umbrella under the table, while he collected the APC card, broom and started sweeping the streets. That is a clear-cut difference because Baba Obasanjo has never carried the broom and he has never torn his PDP membership card. When Oyinlola left the PDP for the APC, he started sweeping the streets of Osogbo and it meant he was out of the PDP. Baba has not rejected his card. He has never touched a broom let alone using it. So, Obasanjo is still a PDP member. How did you see OBJ’s seeming ambivalence to activities of the PDP, especially on preparations for the 2015 election ? Baba has said it that he remains a card-carrying PDP member. Is his body language not sufficient to convince leaders of PDP like that he is no longer committed to the cause of PDP and this is bound to affect the chances of your party, particularly in the South- West? Baba is an interesting man. In two weeks, he can change his mind and decide to lead Jonathan’s caucus in prosecuting the election. Baba has lot of surprises politically and otherwise, which I have seen. Don’t predict Baba Obasanjo. You should not be surprised the day you will see him leading the campaign or doing something similar. Let’s wait until then. He is still a card- carrying member of the PDP. How do you see this second term of some of your governors in your party that try to move from government house to Senate? It is all about human greed because some of our governors. I am happy that you are talking about this issue. It is not peculiar to the PDP. I don’t know why government house turned most of the governors to mad people. When these boys become governors, they suddenly become different human beings to their political parties. You can’t talk to them again; they become monsters in their various states. It is not peculiar to Osun, Oyo, Ekiti, Akwa ibom or any other state. I have experienced it. people were going to then but as soon as they become governors they will tell the security at the gate that they should not allow people to enter. You are the leaders who put them there. They turned to themselves to demi-god. There must be some set of virus in government house, virus of insanity and this development calls for attention. They tend develop the superiority complex as if any other human being is sub human. How can you say you are leaving the government house and go to the Senate? Are political appointments the birthright of any of us? It is wrong! They want to anoint every body, all prospective aspirants have to send doctors to go and clear the virus in government houses. I have seen a lot of governors who are my friends before they became governors and after they became governors they became notorious. Why is it difficult for the parties to pluck the wings of the governor? Where there is money, there is power. A president has to dance to the tune of the governors because they are going to finance the elections in their states. Buhari cannot insult the governors in the APC states because they believe they possess the ace in their respective states. That is the situation we have found ourselves. So, nobody who wants to win an election at the centre will ignore the governors, because of the belief that they will deliver their states. Even some of the leaders of the parties are afraid to talk to the governors. The leaders within their states have been incarcerated so much so that they have kept them silent as they (the governors) have become super human and nobody can talk to them. We should pray to God that the virus in government house should be cured as Ebola was cured so that when our governors get to government house, they will become sane. This is not about the PDP, APC, AD, the LP governors; it’s all governors. Why is the PDP jittery over the high calibre of aspirants seeking the APC presidential ticket; particularly politicians like Muhammadu Buhari, Atiku Abubakar and Musa Kwankwaso, who some see as tested hands in politics? Somebody was appointed minister of timbers in Nigeria, prolific writer. I wont mention the name. You cannot use 1952 theory, school of economy in 1952, to tackle contemporary economic issues. I read that article in Tribune Newspaper. What Buhari did as Head of State he cant try it now. When Buhari was tried again, he didn’t make too much success when he was chairman of petroleum task force. He relinquished his power to younger boss. He was just there as figure head. He has not been a civilian head of state so we have not tried him. Jonathan is calculated and one thing God gave him his patience; not his wife, Patience. He’s very patient; you can’t easily provoke him. That is attribute of a good leader and a good listener. One good listener that I have ever seen in my life is Babangida. Babangida is also a good listener. What you are saying might not change his mind he would allow you to finish. When you listen and you don’t take decision in anger, you will succeed. He’s like a seasoned editor of newspaper who started as a reporter. He went to news room to edit now became editor. He started as deputy governor and became governor and then to vice president. You cannot compare his experience with Buhari who was trained as military man. What about Kwankwaso and Atiku? With Atiku who was never a president But he was vice president He was a spare tyre. He didn’t take decision that affected the country positively. What about the young man that just came out? You mean Kwankwaso? Kwankwaso has bad policy in kano which was kicked out by Shekarau. But he bounced back But, Shekarau was on the slot. He was kicked out as a sitting governor. If he kicked you as outgoing governor is not a news. If he’s kicked out as a sitting governor that is news . If they can kick Kwankwaso out as a sitting governor, his boss was on his way out as governor. If he was a good governor they wont kick him out. They are not better than our candidate. The roads were so bad. I travel by roads to different parts and you cannot compare it with what we have now some say the issue of corruption has taken another dimensio. The issue of corruption is a Nigeria factor. It is not Jonathan How do you mean? I wanted to get license for my new vehicle. The cost is N5,000 that has to be paid into bank account, the man said if I didn’t pay certain sum to him I wont get it. Was that caused by Jonathan? Even your workers if you don’t give them what they call incentives like bribe, they wont work. When you talk of corruption, is Jonathan the cause of corruption? What people are saying is that there have been cases of obvious corruption leveled against top government official. There a lot of corruption cases level against all sorts of government; either in PDP, APC. It is not a function or factor of PDP. I don’t want to start mentioning names. I can tell you governors who left their state in penury. I can tell you governor who chases cases in court with some of their business dealings who are not even PDP now, who are not Labour Party member. So, this thing is a Nigerian factor. Are you saying there is no way we can get out of this? The popularity this man enjoyed was when late General Tunde Idiagbon with Buhari introduced WAI (War Against Indiscipline). It brought a bit of sanity into the society. You cannot practise some of those antics now because we have democracy. But at the same time, people are suggesting the reintroduction of death penalty as a panacea for corruption. Or what do you think is wrong with the war on corruption in the country? Our lawyers will never let the cases on corruption get to conclusion. They will bring all manner of injunctions. Do you know how many people were to court of appropriate jurisdictions on cases of corruption? Former governors of Edo, Kwara, Lagos, Anambra and others! So, that is the problem at hand. Anytime you have a sound policy in Nigeria, some people will rise against the system. During the Ebola crisis, the Minister of Education, in his wisdom, said that the school just not resume immediately until we see the end of Ebola. It was a good decision. What are your fears for 2015 elections and why? I don’t have any fear. Apart of Tambuwal, there is the issue of insecurity. Are these challenges not enough to make Nigerians apprehensive? God is in control. The only thing that I see as apprehensive is insurgency; its a new dimension in Nigeria history but as for the crisis and hills across the country; that is politics for you! I am not bothered about that. Why do you think people say the decision of your party to endorse Jonathan as the candidate was not democratic and secondly, why is it difficult for your party consensus of other party member? It is because of the existing political structure, so the situation is not peculiar to the PDP. Former Lagos State governor, Bola Tinubu was picked for second time by consensus. Governor Ibilunle Amosun of Ogun State was picked by almost consensus and my brother, Governor Abiola Ajimobi was picked by consensus. It is the culture of democracy in Nigeria. Left to me, second time should be abolished. Why? This is the cause of this consensus or no consensus. All the problems we have in Nigeria have to do when you want to transit from one government to another. A single term of four years is enough for you to do what you want to do and go if you are committed to serving the people. Then, which one do you prefer: four or five years’ single term? It is either four years single term or five years maximum.